tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.comments2023-09-12T23:42:28.590+10:00ThinkultiUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger289125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-63830468153006841492019-10-27T22:36:58.893+11:002019-10-27T22:36:58.893+11:00I did start to take more notice of my hold on the ...I did start to take more notice of my hold on the disc after watching the Japanese teams use of a strongly stylised two hand 'grab' of the disc when they were holding it. It was a noticeable feature of their 'style' of play that also differentiated them at the time they brought it into fashion, and as they did well, I thought I'd give it a go myself (they say imitation is the best form of flattery) hoping it would make me a better player, LOL.<br /><br />After using it for a bit I did become a fan of the accentuated 2-hand play style and have been getting my young padawans to apply it also, hoping it would also improve their play.<br /><br />I definitely think that there is an improvement in both my own play and that of beginners when applying that 2-hand approach. The only thing that I am still unsure of, as alluded to before, is the (scientific) reason why. <br /><br />I agree with your comment above, that it does feel easier/quicker to change between grips when holding the disc with 2 hands. In doing so, I also feel it acts as a good 'disguise' as to which throw you will use.<br /><br />Thanks again for putting up your article. <br /><br />We are in agreeance that 2-hands is better than one. :)Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00763262499515878965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-36008964873691585152019-10-27T21:13:14.484+11:002019-10-27T21:13:14.484+11:00Hi Phil
Yes, the title is deliberately a bit off,...Hi Phil<br /><br />Yes, the title is deliberately a bit off, as it plays off the memorable saying "two hands for beginners".<br /><br />For someone who is experienced at ultimate and throws well, a two-hand grip won't change much, and won't improve your throws. As you observed.<br /><br />It is intended as a preventative step for beginners, a significant number of who have poor technique. It will improve the orientation of their palm and the motion of their arm, if they have "sticky elbow syndrome". <br /><br />Two-hands for long backhands rotates the torso more. If you face with your chest at 45 degrees to the target (between towards and sideways), drawing your off hand back usually rotates the shoulders back more. This gives more power to longer throws. Your mileage may vary, but the footage of elite US throws seems to show them using it. <br /><br />Two hands on the disc before forehands is important for palm orientation and release height. A noticeable number of beginners have the disc at waist height through the forehand action. In the video example, Jimmy Mickle shows us good technique: disc goes waist height to head height to waist height.<br /><br />I would suggest that elite players have two hands on the disc for quickness of grip change, not safety. It may also help with off-elbow drive: https://ultiworld.com/2015/07/09/the-forehand-part-four-best-practices/<br /><br />Two hands on the disc. Does it promote better throws? I would say it helps prevent bad throwing techniques. Owenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03469814563421745485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-17499014703545813772019-10-27T15:07:28.478+11:002019-10-27T15:07:28.478+11:00Hi Owen,
Great thought-provoking article.
You h...Hi Owen, <br /><br />Great thought-provoking article.<br /><br />You have definitely made me think more about this, and to go out and test it to see if it holds up to the pros (and cons) that you say it lives up to. :) <br /><br />In doing so I've come to the conclusion that the title of the article is actually "Hold the disc with two hands", not actually "hold the disc with two hands when throwing it [yes paraphrased :) ]". This is stated in the first line after the title, almost 'correcting' the title above it.<br /><br />I think that all the 'points' used to say how holding the disc with two hands, prior to throwing it, helps you throw it better, don't actually apply. i.e. they sound good as a theory, however when I've actually put it into practice, I really can't say that holding the disc with two hands prior to throwing it, promotes more use of the arm, nor does it force my palm to face one direction over another when I throw the disc. Unless you are crossing your arms over somehow in a backhand throw, it doesn't promote more torso twist, it actually seems to promote less torso twist, than if I let my free (non-throwing) arm go back even further. Try it for yourself. <br /><br />I would go further to say that holding the disc with two hands before a flick actually promotes high release O-I flicks with more upward outside disc-edge angle, making it more prone to turn over (O-I style) due to its exaggerated incline and release height, which is something beginners are already prone to do, negatively affecting the discs stable long-duration flight-time. <br /><br />Don't get me wrong, I think that holding the disc in two hands is always going to be safer than holding it one hand. And by safer I mean, you are less likely to drop it, maybe from accidentally brushing it against your body or any other self-mishap, that doesn't involve another player bumping you.<br /><br />That's really what you are seeing in the videos of top level players holding the disc in two hands. It's just safer (It may also center and balance your stance, as well as face you in the direction you want to throw? - not such a bad thing, and this may be the biggest, positive, effect on throws IMHO). <br /><br />So yes, it's great to teach beginners to hold the disc with two hands whenever they are catching, and pivoting, and also immediately before they start their throwing action.<br /><br />As for 'cause and effect'. <br /><br />Does it promote better throws? <br /><br />No, I don't believe so. <br /><br />Would I teach beginners to hold the disc in two hands?<br /><br />"Absolutely yes", nothing has changed there. :)Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00763262499515878965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-76063664743676855852018-10-23T13:37:27.037+11:002018-10-23T13:37:27.037+11:00An excellent solution, Owen. I think having a sec...An excellent solution, Owen. I think having a second disc flip overly complicates things when the result won't really matter in the grand scheme of things, and the decision seems rather arbitrary (unlike direction and offense/defense status). My first thought would be that whether Point 1 is 4-3 or 3-4 should just be determined by the event (ie: "This tournament is 4-3 for point 1" or "This league is a 3-4 start for all games") but then I remembered there are teams that play multiple leagues concurrently, and if different leagues choose different things it could still cause confusion. Much better for the AFDA (or WFDF) to declare 2019 the year of "4-3 start" and then alternate each year.<br /><br />As an aside, I find your suggestion change the sport to 6v6 interesting. It would change quite a lot of things about the game at high levels. Any reason you'd choose that over going up to 8v8?Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06931637841878329187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-76460094785336770942014-06-14T19:04:48.453+10:002014-06-14T19:04:48.453+10:00How do you distinguish them?How do you distinguish them?Owenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03469814563421745485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-84173946418158049352014-06-14T14:01:27.740+10:002014-06-14T14:01:27.740+10:00The conversation in our household lately has been ...The conversation in our household lately has been lack of spirit or lack of sportsmanship?Alicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03146337923247027766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-18459892610171407082014-06-13T11:43:21.673+10:002014-06-13T11:43:21.673+10:00"so is a timeout an appropriate way to delay ..."so is a timeout an appropriate way to delay the game for tactical reasons".<br />Teams are free to use the timeout for whatever purpose they choose. <br />To my mind, unduly delaying the game for tactical reasons applies to delay's prior to the check after a call.Ruebenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804174565517448712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-56960439287442119122014-06-11T20:17:32.113+10:002014-06-11T20:17:32.113+10:00Great post. Good questions to promote discussion....Great post. Good questions to promote discussion. I agree with most of what's been said here except I'm surprised that Rueben reckons #8 is ok. Isn't it a direct example of " They unduly delayed the game <br />for tactical reasons" from the SOTG examples that BCR just linked to as "poor spirit". I guess the word in question there is "unduly", so is a timeout an appropriate way to delay the game for tactical reasons?Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06931637841878329187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-76150291914253976552014-06-10T20:39:56.620+10:002014-06-10T20:39:56.620+10:00WFDF has some pretty specific guidelines and examp...WFDF has some pretty specific guidelines and examples to follow here. Maybe before answering with how they "feel" (Which is subjective and varies from location to location and team to team) people should check the rules that are relevant to their country.<br /><br />http://wfdf.org/downloads/doc_download/461-sotg-scoring-system-2014-examples-finalBCRnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-18899676236857719702014-06-10T15:48:40.346+10:002014-06-10T15:48:40.346+10:00To me, a lot of spirit is a grey area and depends ...To me, a lot of spirit is a grey area and depends on the intention why someone does things. It also often depends on context (as Dan points out) and in my opinion also the players' general attitude (are they scum otherwise or not).<br />Also, I would distinguish between spirited (good spirit), neutral, poor/little spirit (not bad by itself but a lot of this adds up) and bad spirit…<br /><br />Anyway, here my take:<br /><br />#1: OK if it happens on the field. Out of bounds I think it would be good spirit to give the person that laid out a chance to get back to the mark (no need to wait but allow someone that gets up and runs back to come and tap in). So running back i'd say poor spirit but not bad spirit.<br /><br />#2: Depends on context. In general I'd call it poor spirit as well. Definitely not good spirit as he sprints. If we just keeps walking (predictably), then it's ok.<br /><br />#3: Bad spirit. Know your rules especially if you insist on them. We all make mistakes, but insisting on them is the problem. Means the person takes themselves too important.<br /><br />#4: Yes, depends on the field dynamics. Is the winning team in general lenient and chill or overall aggro? Would they be fine with others doing the same to them? If yes, I'd say neutral. If the hammer point comes with a lot of attitude, poor spirit.<br /><br />#5: No problem (neutral) unless it's directed or otherwise stupid (tacos the disc, forces people to go and fetch it, hits someone else)<br /><br />#6: Similar to #4, depending on the attitude of the player (team): Can be good fun (i.e. good spirit) or neutral.<br /><br />#7: As #6. neutral to positive.<br /><br />#8: I think this is neutral. If the team would take offence in others doing to them and throw a tantrum, I'd think of this as poor spirit.<br /><br />In the end, for me the spirit perspective in the middle ground is covered along the lines of do upon others as you wish them to do upon you. The team/player attitude affect if this is done in order to take advantage or with a wink.njyohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03755388109324638775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-84399159872947849162014-06-10T14:59:25.576+10:002014-06-10T14:59:25.576+10:00I agree with Dan for most of those, except #2 and ...I agree with Dan for most of those, except #2 and 8.<br /><br />These are definitely OK.Ruebenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804174565517448712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-41730456202537617422014-06-10T14:51:33.784+10:002014-06-10T14:51:33.784+10:00cool questions! imo:
1. A player lays out for a d...cool questions! imo:<br /><br />1. A player lays out for a disc and lands well out of bounds but doesn't catch it. Her opponent runs the disc back to the sideline and puts into to play before she gets up. She's not injured.<br /><br />OK - players who are cognizant and able enough to layout also understand the risks of a missed bid, poor resultant positioning included. It's part of the risk/reward choice of the layout made beforehand.<br /><br />2. A player picks up the disc and walks towards the front of the end zone. When his defender has their back turned, he sprints past them and puts it into play on the front of the end zone, before the defender realises.<br /><br />slightly poor spirit?? - no sound position against this other than that I don't like the behavior. like #8.<br /><br />3. A player competing in the World Club Championships calls travel on the thrower as they pivot, but doesn't know that travel need not be a stoppage, and insists play be stopped.<br /><br />definitely poor spirit - everyone is responsible for showing up with a correct understanding of the rules, especially for game altering things like stoppages, and doubly so for common calls like travel. that being said, I don't know _all_ the rules myself and just learned a new one last weekend, actually, so I'm not saying this is common or easy. just that it's our responsibility. <br /><br />4. A team winning 14-4 at a Nationals warm-up tournament plays a point where they only throw hammers.<br /><br />context, probs unspirited - how's the mood of the losing team? without any additional information, it's probably unspirited, but not necessarily, depending on the losing team.<br /><br />5. A player catches a goal and throws the disc up in the air.<br /><br />OK - Not sure what this is in reference to - maybe similar to the question of spiking? As long as the celebration isn't AT/on/impeding the opponents, it's okay. note that if the celebration does end up at/on the opponents, even if it's on accident, that's very _not_ ok.<br /><br />6. A player throws through the legs of their opponent.<br /><br />context - depends whether the marker is new. Veteran players think it's funny, because they know the trade offs and understand that one through-the-legs throw out of hundreds of marks isn't a big deal, and they know how to stop it next time. for new players, the play is much more embarrassing since they have a smaller context/experience, and don't have the understanding to make any compensating counter-plays next time<br /><br />7. A player pretends to throw a hammer, but hides it behind their back while the marker looks to see where it went.<br /><br />context (see 6)<br /><br />8. A captain calls timeout close to time cap, to ensure time cap will go during this point, and reduce/eliminate the chance of the opposing team winning.<br /><br />unspirited - like #2. I don't like it, so it's unspirited, but that's just a gut feeling: I don't think I can make a logical argument to convince someone to agree with me. perhaps my thought of "I wouldn't like to do it to someone else, and I wouldn't like it done to me," is enough of an argument?Dan Gempesawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558043787653724160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-78509213658149611232014-04-27T02:15:20.022+10:002014-04-27T02:15:20.022+10:00Uh, that was from Smithers. I used to coach a team...Uh, that was from Smithers. I used to coach a team called Kangamoose. Your blog comments page wants everyone to remember that.Kangamoosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04387599592558537635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-32643447640775169852014-04-27T02:13:17.490+10:002014-04-27T02:13:17.490+10:00I am overjoyed by the lack of puns in these update...I am overjoyed by the lack of puns in these updates. Great work, Shep!Kangamoosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04387599592558537635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-26596414853485564542014-04-27T00:33:26.524+10:002014-04-27T00:33:26.524+10:00I am disappointed at the lack of puns in these upd...I am disappointed at the lack of puns in these updates. But thank you for the update. Look forward to the one tomorrow.jenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01708538075475345860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-27421786049224898962014-04-26T23:40:44.485+10:002014-04-26T23:40:44.485+10:00Thanks, Shep!Thanks, Shep!- Doc.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10761507524097234262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-17882864870064498652014-02-23T04:48:13.565+11:002014-02-23T04:48:13.565+11:00Nice summary. Do you know what distance she was th...Nice summary. Do you know what distance she was throwing here? Looks like a mid-range (20-40 yard) flick?<br /><br />Keep up the good work,<br />BradyBradyhttp://www.pulleddisc.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-4771447201447918302014-02-11T13:57:37.598+11:002014-02-11T13:57:37.598+11:00I tried it. The exercises are quite detailed: spec...I tried it. The exercises are quite detailed: specific times for concentric and eccentric phases and resting, varying between exercises. This meant I had to check the printout a lot. Otherwise awesome. A plan telling you what to do, when to do it, with video examples and flexibility depending on how much time per week you have. <br /><br />If you print it off you can run it in your own season.Owenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03469814563421745485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-29023586795279929382013-10-30T16:48:38.128+11:002013-10-30T16:48:38.128+11:00Views on 2015 changes coming in?
What will Mixed...Views on 2015 changes coming in? <br /><br />What will Mixed Ultimate look like afterwards? Is the path of Mixed being second-class ultimate one you, or Australia, is comfortable with?<br /><br />Could slotting a Mixed Division into AUC help keep it alive?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04511350139048829594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-40378114028968868002013-10-30T16:45:17.888+11:002013-10-30T16:45:17.888+11:00Any views on Melissa Witmer's Ultimate Athlete...Any views on Melissa Witmer's Ultimate Athlete Project? <br /><br />I find it to have a good structure relating to a season, (something Tim Morrill's stuff lacks) however it is very frustrating that it is based on the US season. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04511350139048829594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-90544160086844832252013-09-07T04:26:50.780+10:002013-09-07T04:26:50.780+10:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.part time jobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02744315541938085195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-87651891700797658082012-08-29T20:02:50.556+10:002012-08-29T20:02:50.556+10:00I have actually been lucky enough to attend a Sock...I have actually been lucky enough to attend a Sockeye clinic and they actually drill those throws and teach it at clinics. I don't remember what it's called, I call it the compass and I think they call it that too.<br /><br />2 players, 1 disc. Do this for both backhand and forehand. Let's start with backhands, so all throws are backhands with these pivots: First you take a step right in front of you towards your partner, 90 degree angle (North) and throw, then you move 45 degrees right (NE), like a forward forehand pivot, throw, then another 45 (E), so it's a normal forehand pivot to the side, throw.. You just keep adding 45's until you do a full circle. And you do it with both throws. <br /><br />I find it to be a very useful drill for getting used to throwing in uncomfortable positions which do happen in game every now and then and also helps you with quick releases for short passes with wrong pivots as exampled above.<br /><br />So it's no coincidence that Sockeye does this a lot, Just watch players like Spence who do it all the time. They do it because they drill it. The Dudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05174525506253983501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-50610883512618012342012-06-04T16:13:13.399+10:002012-06-04T16:13:13.399+10:00The point that shows this throw a lot is at 23 min...The point that shows this throw a lot is at 23 minutes 50 seconds.Owenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03469814563421745485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-33669133786165622612012-06-04T04:42:08.705+10:002012-06-04T04:42:08.705+10:00Can you give a minute mark to watch an example, no...Can you give a minute mark to watch an example, not quite able to picture what you are describing. Thanks!El Manicerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12497104707654627206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18814552.post-58144624938222377892012-04-27T13:15:13.724+10:002012-04-27T13:15:13.724+10:00Perhaps I need a better word than "flopped&qu...Perhaps I need a better word than "flopped".<br /><br />You guys toppled Factory, right? And then beat a very good Kaos team for bronze. You had great games - except that semi. I had high expectations of Sand Dunes, and was surprised to see you trailing 10-3 (?) during the semi. As was Nikki, who I talked to briefly during the game.Owenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03469814563421745485noreply@blogger.com