Showing posts with label throwing. Show all posts
Showing posts with label throwing. Show all posts

23 November 2019

The single most important skill that beginners are not being taught: grip change

Beginners get shown what the forehand hand grip is.

But not how to efficiently change from a backhand grip to a forehand grip. Being shown how to do this skill is critical.

Here is a suggestion for teaching the change of grip.

First, teach catching. Then teach backhands. Let the beginners practice those two skills.

Then before teaching forehands, do the following:
  1. Show a disc in two hands in front (neutral position)
  2. Bring the disc in two hands to vertical, near the throwing shoulder. Do this using the non-throwing hand to move it into position in one single motion. The throwing hand changes from backhand grip to forehand grip. Walk past every beginner and show them where the fingers of the throwing hand go, keeping the disc vertical in two hands.
  3. Bring the disc in two hands back to neutral position.
  4. Give every beginner a disc, and have them practice this grip change. Check every person can do it.
  5. Ask the beginners to put the discs on the ground.
  6. Then, and only then, teach them to throw a forehand.
Teach this grip change
If you explicitly teach beginners the act of changing grips (not just the finishing position), they will get the disc to a better position before forehand throws, will have a better throwing action and will not be stuck with a clunky 3-step grip change for the hundreds of ultimate games they will play. 

Some coaches like having the disc upside down to demonstrate the forehand grip. It is initially helpful to beginners who need to see the finger position. I have done this. But it is a massive disadvantage if you habitually change your grip via an upside down disc during a game. 

Currently, beginners are taught 3 basic skills: catching, backhand and forehand. They need to be taught the fourth basic skill, grip change, before learning the forehand.

It is worth noting that being able to do a skill is different from knowing how you do that skill and explaining it clearly.

In ultimate, expert players don't think about how they switch grips from backhand to forehand. Even if they can do it effortlessly in front of you, or in a game.

Unfortunately, the same experienced players then teach novices, and don't explicitly teach that skill to them. So let's teach it.

7 February 2014

How Alex Snyder throws

The captain of San Francisco's Fury and the 2013 USA World Games team, Alex Snyder, has a pretty good bio in ultimate. I don't know who is a more accomplished athlete in our sport.

So how does a top level player throw a forehand? If you watch a video or in person, it's all over in 1 second.

This gif will let you see the actual mechanics.


What is happening when Alex throws?

Alex steps forward. A lot. She said that she does this even if the mark is there, throwing past the plane of the marker. Most markers will step back, foul her, or allow her to throw through the gap.

For a lot of players, a big step forward will swing their throw to their left or give it too much outside in - their hips will rotate during the throw. Alex doesn't. She winds up her torso before the throw, and this brings her right shoulder a long way back. It then drives forward in the throwing action, but her hips don't rotate relative to her feet.

Her left arm is out from her body, to counterbalance her throw, and create space from the marker.

Alex has a good range of motion - her right elbow is leading her right hand as she starts her throw. She can lunge forward a good distance. She can twist her torso.

Alex is a good example to learn from.

If you come along to a RiseUp clinic in Australia this week, you'll learn many other things from Alex too. She knows how to coach, and is here to share her knowledge of training for ultimate.

9 January 2014

What the elbow does in a forehand throw

The elbow of an expert thrower does two things during a forehand throw.

1. The elbow moves forward.

2. The elbow straightens.

And it happens in that order. Poor throwers generally struggle because they are leaving one of these steps out.

Why does the elbow have to do these two things?

Firstly, the elbow moves forward to give momentum to the arm, by rotation at the shoulder joint. So the elbow has to start behind the body. This is easier if the disc is upside down.

Once the elbow has moved as far forward as it can, the hand needs to move forward. This is done by straightening the elbow.

The last steps are wrist snap and finger snap.

The momentum is transferred to the disc late in the motion. It is at the end of the chain.

Another way of thinking of the motion is: shoulder, then elbow, then wrist, then finger. The snap of a good forehand involves the whole arm chain, with all joints used in a particular order.

Matt Dowle is a good example to watch.



13 March 2012

The throw that the good players are using

The throw to add to your repertoire is the backhand, from a forehand stance.

By forehand stance, I mean facing downfield, with your knees, chest, nose all pointing towards the endzone that you are attacking. Then throwing a backhand: right-handers bring the disc to the left side of your body in a backhand grip, and throw.

One advantage is that you don't need to pivot to throw a forehand - you are already in a good stance for a forehand. So the marker has to respect that forehand threat. Additionally it is quicker than pivoting out to a backhand stance before throwing a backhand.

The disadvantages are: you don't release as wide as when you pivot out into backhand stance for a conventional backhand, and you also lose the rotation of your hips and shoulders. Your range is limited to 10 - 20m for most players.

But that is all the range you need for 90% of your throws.

Watch Sockeye use it on almost every pass in this point (at 23mins 50sec), in particular the assist. Then start practising it - it will give you more wrist snap on all your backhands.




24 May 2011

Signs of not using the elbow

Here are some signs of a player not using their elbow when throwing a forehand
  • The disc turns over in flight (too much outside in)
  • The player thrusts their hips forward and shoulders back as they throw a forehand.
  • The elbow remains close to the waist before or after the throw.
  • The player cannot throw a wide forehand. 
  • The player is using a split finger grip (so they can hold the disc out horizontally, without it flopping down). Holding the disc vertically removes this need.
Any others?

To correct this, the player can hold the disc vertically, with their elbow out from their body and back.

Practise a forehand throwing motion several times and then throw, emphasising two things:
  1. Rolling your wrist under, not over, so it finishes palm up
  2. Moving your elbow through

1 May 2011

Fixing that forehand

There are 5 fundamental points to throwing a disc: grip, stance, snapping your wrist, angling the disc and pointing on the follow-through.

You can remember it as GSWAP.

Rob and Brodie have demonstrated these points or similar ones.

But have you seen players whose forehands curve over with too much outside in? Despite you mentioning these points? Do they look like this?


GSWAP needs an update.

Number 1: rolling your wrist under, not over

Number 2: moving your elbow through.

These two ideas are linked.

You can practice the first point now: hold a disc (or an imaginary one) in forehand grip, but hold it vertically so your palm faces down. Pretend to throw, and finish with your palm up. This counteracts the outside-in curve that is a regular problem.

To assist this correct rotation, you need to use your elbow. If your elbow is locked in next to your waist, rolling your wrist under is awkward - your wrist prefers to roll over from palm up to palm down.

So free your elbow!

Get into forehand stance again. Hold a disc in forehand grip with your palm down. But this time start with your elbow out, back and bent at 90°.

As you swing your elbow forward, you have more power. Your wrist will more naturally rotate under, from palm down to palm up. Follow through with your palm up.

It looks more like this.


Or you can watch Rob and Brodie

Here are the 5 updated fundamental points to throwing a forehand: grip, stance, rolling your wrist under with snap, swing the elbow, and pointing palm up on the follow-through. You can remember it as GSWEP.

Thanks to Mama for demonstrating the throws.

30 September 2010

Forehand grip angles

Rob shows how lots of forehand snap equals more spin on the disc.

The part I am interested in is the plane of the disc: like many experienced ultimate players, just before throwing, the disc is held vertical or past the vertical. At release, it is horizontal.

Beginner forehands usually have too much outside in, because the thrower rolls their wrist over: palm up to palm down. Expert forehands are thrown flat, generally because the wrist rolls the opposite way: palm down to palm up.

Try it now without a disc.

Yet who has ever taught players this, after they have mastered the GSWAP basics of throwing?

My big question is how early (first lesson, first month, first year) do we need to teach this wrist roll to those learning ultimate? I know some experienced players who need to try it, to see if their forehands will benefit.

It starts with holding the disc vertical, or even partly upside down. Like Dan does here.

31 January 2010

10 metre throw

Ok, here's the scenario. You're the thrower in the middle of the field. Your stall count is on 5.

The marker is forcing straight up on you, knees bent, his long arms spread out wide. A cutter is running straight at you from 20 metres upfield. He is very open.

A wide release backhand would be really tough because of another cutter clearing out nearby on that side with his defender, and your marker's large wingspan.

A wide release forehand would be tough as well, because your dump's defender is near that side. And you have the big arms of your marker to deal with.

Do you have a high release throw that can hit this cutter?

If your answer is "no", then you likely have to turn, engage your dump, and your team will reset the offence.

If your answer is "yes, I have a throw for this" then you can gain yards, and can attack (because throwing is a great starting place for a cut, whether it's cutting upfield 8 metres for a dishy pass back, or a long cut deep or flaring wide to draw your defender out of there).

The throw only needs to travel 10 metres. A little float to it will make it easier to catch. It is only a "twitch" throw (requires no significant wind-up, or repositioning of your torso by lunging etc).

Twitch throws give the marker no time to react if you have the disc in a position ready to release, and they don't have their hand in the way. Twitch backhands seem like a big new trend for North American elite open ultimate.

I have thought about this scenario a bit, and seeing how often a "no" slows down the offence can be painful to watch. I have thrown more and more scoobers in the last 12 months in this scenario, which is a throw from either forehand stance, backhand stance or while pivoting across.

And I am working on getting more and more high backhands and high forehands out (for the backhand and forehand stances respectively). One way to get there - lots of three man drill (aka thrower-marker drill), making sure you are in ready stance and with the stall count coming in on 9.

14 September 2009

The tools for throwing a break throw

Being able to break the mark whenever you like is invaluable.

Here are the physical tools that will really help you.

1. A wide release.
Don't be tucking that elbow into your body.

2. Hip flexibility
If you can't move your upper body out over your non-pivot leg, you won't get wide.

3. Leg strength
You need to be able to lunge out wide and be balanced once you are out there.

Tex and Jonno demonstrate the tools, even if these examples aren't necessarily break throws.

28 January 2009

Elements of a ready stance

Following on from the previous post on the ready stance, I want to look at how to hold the disc.

There are many folks who have commented, discussed and taught grips. I have spouted my 2 cents: use the power grips.

But there is very little understanding of how to hold the disc, relative to the ground or the thrower's body.

In a forehand stance (i.e. facing towards your likely targets, usually with a forehand mark on), you could hold it a number of ways.


In a wide, blade stance like Dan (or Jeff). The disc face is roughly vertical.


Or in a wide, flat stance like Liz. This disc face is horizontal.


Or in front of your body, with two hands like Kristy.

Generally, I think the wide, blade stance is best (the first photo). It is ready to throw in an instant. It is easy to hold with one hand since the thumb and webbing support most of the weight (a horizontal disc needs to be held level by fingers working sideways - this flops around for many players). And it encourages throwing with a short, quick snap of the wrist rather than a big body and arm wind-up, which is preferable for any pass under 20 metres.

For a backhand, the grip is stronger, so the "flop" is less of an issue. Holding it wide is still key, whether it is one hand or two hands.

Let's get the new players ready to throw the first time they are taught ultimate. 

26 January 2009

Ready stance

Last weekend, the AFDA hosted a Coaching Development Course.

Idaho, from Sockeye, was the presenter for the weekend, and shared a range of concepts that he uses when coaching in Seattle.

One of them was the ready stance for a thrower - always having the disc ready to be released as soon as needed. This is useful if a cutter suddenly gets open, or the stall count reaches 9, or the marker starts bumping you. You can throw immediately.

Holding the disc with two hands by your waist - generally not good.

Having the disc out from your body in one hand - good.

This ties in with Idris' earlier point about not pivoting, unless there is a specific need to. Always be ready to throw.

17 September 2008

Generating spin

Over at The Huddle, Paul Vandenberg talked about generating spin to throw further. He mentioned being able to flick cards sharply which can improve backhand snap.

I was reminded that we had a competition to do this at the Mundis fundraising Trivia Night. Most people, frankly, weren't very good. I think I'll bring a pack of old cards to AUGs...

The other key part to generating backhand spin is cocking the wrist back. Ken does it like crazy. He can throw a soft 5 metre pass with some major revolutions on it. I feel I can do this too, both forehand and backhand, but I lose the snap on my hucks. So I have made it a focus of my pulling practice. When that pull comes out with extra snap, the disc flies beautifully.

12 March 2008

Aspects of throwing practice

Many of you may be familiar with the standard set of 100 throws: 10 flat backhands, 10 flat forehands, 10 outside-in backhands, 10 outside-in forehands, 10 inside-out backhands, 10 inside-out forehands, 10 scoobers, 10 hammers, 10 long backhands, 10 long forehands.

What variations in throwing are used in this set?

Basically, grip (forehand vs backhand vs hammer), angle of throw (inside-out vs flat vs outside-in) and distance (short vs long).

But there are other aspects we can vary:
  • speed of throw (fast vs slow)
  • height of throw (low vs normal vs high)
  • width of pivot (normal vs wide)
  • angle of pivot (step forward vs step sideways vs step back)
  • width of pivot (step out a little vs step out a lot)
  • catching aggression (let disc come to you vs sprint to catch it at earliest moment)
  • after the throw (stand and watch vs cut left vs cut right)
So here are two other sets of throws you can use.

Break Throw 100

This set will work on your break throws.
  • 10 backhands, 10 forehands: flat, normal height release, step sideways as far as feasible, slow disc speed(should arrive gently in receiver's hands)
  • 10 backhands, 10 forehands: flat, low release, step back 45 degrees with a medium pivot, slow disc speed
  • 10 backhands, 10 forehands: inside-out (disc must arrive at receiver inside-out), low release, step sideways with a medium pivot, slow disc speed
  • 5 forehand blades: pivot from backhand stance, throw very vertical blade
  • 5 scoobers: pivot from forehand stance, throw scoober
  • 10 hammers: fake forehand, throw hammer
  • 10 long backhands: pivot from forehand stance sideways, wide into the backhand huck
  • 10 long forehands: pivot from backhand stance sideways, wide into the forehand huck

Throw and Go 30

And here is a set that will warm you up before a game, and teach you to give-and-go. It also doesn't take long. After the first throw, jog to your left for five metres.

After the second throw, jog to your right for five metres. You'll end up roughly where you started after every two throws. The aim is to start running in the throwing motion. Leave more time between each catch and throw, if you want to improve focus and completion rate. If you do it at maximum speed it is basically the kill drill.

This set will cover all combinations of throw forehand/backhand and run left/right.
  • 5 low flat backhands (slow jog)
  • 5 low flat forehands (slow jog)
  • 5 outside-in backhands (fast acceleration)
  • 5 outside-in forehands (fast acceleration)
  • 5 inside-out backhands (fast acceleration)
  • 5 inside-out forehands (fast acceleration)

27 November 2007

Where the toe points

Tommy likes to throw his forehand with his arm inside his non-pivot leg.

Jenny likes to throw her forehand with her arm outside.

Tommy's form is common to most North Americans, while Jenny's form is what Aussies usually use.

Advantages? Disadvantages?

Where you point your toe determines where your knee will go.
Toe pointed sideways -> arm inside.
Toe pointed forwards -> arm outside.

28 January 2007

Hammers

After throwing hammers today, I reckon it is about fingers.

Throw the hammer with your fingertips, not your hand. All the force goes through your fingertips, like you are pushing it.

Yeah hammers.

That is all.

17 January 2007

GSWAP explained

In a previous post, I glossed over GSWAP.

Here is GSWAP explained. GSWAP is a 5 point guideline that is both a useful explanation for teaching a beginner to throw, and a good list to choose from if giving feedback to a beginner.

It is in the AFDA Level 1 Ultimate Frisbee Coaching Course. You may have seen some discs with the GSWAP explanation on them.

Grip - use a power grip. See previous post for the details.

Stance - for a backhand, stand side on to your target. For a forehand, face your target.

Wrist - flick your wrist, to give the disc lots of spin

Angle - angle the outside edge of the disc down towards the ground

Point - point at your target after releasing the disc

The beginner's throw doesn't have enough power?
Check their grip.

The beginner's throws are zooming off to the right too much?
Check their stance.

The beginner's throw is wobbly?
Suggest more wrist.

The beginner's throw turns over during flight?
Suggest more angle - ie point the far edge of the disc more towards the ground.

The beginner's throw is zooming off too high?
Suggest pointing at the target after release.

Beginner has a different problem? Which point would you choose?

4 December 2006

Photos of grips

Here are some photos of forehand grips.

I am only looking at forehands here because they are harder to learn, less intuitive (ask any non-ultimate player to throw a disc, and they will generally throw a backhand, not a forehand), and there is more variation in them, among Ultimate players.

Most players should use a power grip. (Scroll down to 3.2). I am certain about this.

Power grips

Jeff Cruikshank, Furious George, thrower extraordinaire. I recommend having your your ring finger and pinky fingers straight, and supporting the outside of the disc, like Jeff does.

Miranda has the pinky and ring fingers bent.

Tom Rogacki, Chilly, who has huge hands

A Kiwi

Tarrant

Mad Dog


Hybrid grips

Meg Campbell, Ishtar

Rachel

Split finger/Beginner's grip

Still looking for good examples...

17 October 2006

Photos of forehand stances

Here are some photos of players' stances, just after or as they have thrown.

I have chosen forehand stances, as the forehand is a more unnatural action for many.
* Update - I removed some shots since they were still holding the disc or the camera angle was different (I want to compare apples with apples). But here are more from Mixed Nats 07:
Here are more again:
What works? What about their stances can they improve on? What do their stances say about their throwing action?

Do you have any photos to add?

27 September 2006

Sandwiches before the point

Ever have teammates ask the linecaller "So what's the play again?"?

My solution for the linecaller is to remember a sandwich:

Bread, meat, bread.

Or in this case:

Say the play, say who is doing what, then state the play again.

Example: "We are playing backhand clam for 4, transition into backhand man."
(Bread)

Then "George, break, Tim, mark, Ted, you are in the lane. Pete, middle middle, Greg, left wing, Albert right wing, John deep deep."
(Meat)

"So that's backhand clam for 4, people, backhand clam for 4 into backhand"
(Bread)

This way players can first visualise the play, then hear their position and know where they fit into it. Then hear the play again, because half of them will forget the count or the force, or weren't listening to your first four words.

The sandwich should mean fewer instances of people asking "so what's the force?", while taking minimal time to call the line.

The sandwich applies to offence as well. And don't forget to use a person's name - its the thing they listen to the most.

20 September 2006

On the beauty of blades

Some good points about blades are covered here in Idris' blog.

But here are more reasons why the blade is a good throw:
- many defenders don't expect it
- with practice it is quite accurate
- very quick release
- like the regular forehand, no pivot necessary when facing upfield
- takes advantage of the 3-dimensional nature of ultimate (throws can go over defenders, not just left or right of them)
- against stationary defences (eg zones), it is easy to pass to stationary receivers

 
Photo by  Snake3yes

Blades, of varying steepness, are also quite successful as breaks near endzones. As an offense approaches the endzone it is attacking, and it is being forced backhand, the breakside of the stack in the endzone is very open for a step-back forehand blade. I know at least 2 gun handlers who throw the break blade more often than a simple backhand to the open side when near the front left cone of the endzone.

So I am encouraging the handlers on my team to use blades more, especially against zones.