Which show poor spirit? Which are acceptable?
1. A player lays out for a disc and lands well out of bounds but doesn't catch it. Her opponent runs the disc back to the sideline and puts into to play before she gets up. She's not injured.
2. A player picks up the disc and walks towards the front of the end zone. When his defender has their back turned, he sprints past them and puts it into play on the front of the end zone, before the defender realises.
3. A player competing in the World Club Championships calls travel on the thrower as they pivot, but doesn't know that travel need not be a stoppage, and insists play be stopped.
4. A team winning 14-4 at a Nationals warm-up tournament plays a point where they only throw hammers.
5. A player catches a goal and throws the disc up in the air.
6. A player throws through the legs of their opponent.
7. A player pretends to throw a hammer, but hides it behind their back while the marker looks to see where it went.
8. A captain calls timeout close to time cap, to ensure time cap will go during this point, and reduce/eliminate the chance of the opposing team winning.
cool questions! imo:
ReplyDelete1. A player lays out for a disc and lands well out of bounds but doesn't catch it. Her opponent runs the disc back to the sideline and puts into to play before she gets up. She's not injured.
OK - players who are cognizant and able enough to layout also understand the risks of a missed bid, poor resultant positioning included. It's part of the risk/reward choice of the layout made beforehand.
2. A player picks up the disc and walks towards the front of the end zone. When his defender has their back turned, he sprints past them and puts it into play on the front of the end zone, before the defender realises.
slightly poor spirit?? - no sound position against this other than that I don't like the behavior. like #8.
3. A player competing in the World Club Championships calls travel on the thrower as they pivot, but doesn't know that travel need not be a stoppage, and insists play be stopped.
definitely poor spirit - everyone is responsible for showing up with a correct understanding of the rules, especially for game altering things like stoppages, and doubly so for common calls like travel. that being said, I don't know _all_ the rules myself and just learned a new one last weekend, actually, so I'm not saying this is common or easy. just that it's our responsibility.
4. A team winning 14-4 at a Nationals warm-up tournament plays a point where they only throw hammers.
context, probs unspirited - how's the mood of the losing team? without any additional information, it's probably unspirited, but not necessarily, depending on the losing team.
5. A player catches a goal and throws the disc up in the air.
OK - Not sure what this is in reference to - maybe similar to the question of spiking? As long as the celebration isn't AT/on/impeding the opponents, it's okay. note that if the celebration does end up at/on the opponents, even if it's on accident, that's very _not_ ok.
6. A player throws through the legs of their opponent.
context - depends whether the marker is new. Veteran players think it's funny, because they know the trade offs and understand that one through-the-legs throw out of hundreds of marks isn't a big deal, and they know how to stop it next time. for new players, the play is much more embarrassing since they have a smaller context/experience, and don't have the understanding to make any compensating counter-plays next time
7. A player pretends to throw a hammer, but hides it behind their back while the marker looks to see where it went.
context (see 6)
8. A captain calls timeout close to time cap, to ensure time cap will go during this point, and reduce/eliminate the chance of the opposing team winning.
unspirited - like #2. I don't like it, so it's unspirited, but that's just a gut feeling: I don't think I can make a logical argument to convince someone to agree with me. perhaps my thought of "I wouldn't like to do it to someone else, and I wouldn't like it done to me," is enough of an argument?
I agree with Dan for most of those, except #2 and 8.
ReplyDeleteThese are definitely OK.
To me, a lot of spirit is a grey area and depends on the intention why someone does things. It also often depends on context (as Dan points out) and in my opinion also the players' general attitude (are they scum otherwise or not).
ReplyDeleteAlso, I would distinguish between spirited (good spirit), neutral, poor/little spirit (not bad by itself but a lot of this adds up) and bad spirit…
Anyway, here my take:
#1: OK if it happens on the field. Out of bounds I think it would be good spirit to give the person that laid out a chance to get back to the mark (no need to wait but allow someone that gets up and runs back to come and tap in). So running back i'd say poor spirit but not bad spirit.
#2: Depends on context. In general I'd call it poor spirit as well. Definitely not good spirit as he sprints. If we just keeps walking (predictably), then it's ok.
#3: Bad spirit. Know your rules especially if you insist on them. We all make mistakes, but insisting on them is the problem. Means the person takes themselves too important.
#4: Yes, depends on the field dynamics. Is the winning team in general lenient and chill or overall aggro? Would they be fine with others doing the same to them? If yes, I'd say neutral. If the hammer point comes with a lot of attitude, poor spirit.
#5: No problem (neutral) unless it's directed or otherwise stupid (tacos the disc, forces people to go and fetch it, hits someone else)
#6: Similar to #4, depending on the attitude of the player (team): Can be good fun (i.e. good spirit) or neutral.
#7: As #6. neutral to positive.
#8: I think this is neutral. If the team would take offence in others doing to them and throw a tantrum, I'd think of this as poor spirit.
In the end, for me the spirit perspective in the middle ground is covered along the lines of do upon others as you wish them to do upon you. The team/player attitude affect if this is done in order to take advantage or with a wink.
WFDF has some pretty specific guidelines and examples to follow here. Maybe before answering with how they "feel" (Which is subjective and varies from location to location and team to team) people should check the rules that are relevant to their country.
ReplyDeletehttp://wfdf.org/downloads/doc_download/461-sotg-scoring-system-2014-examples-final
Great post. Good questions to promote discussion. I agree with most of what's been said here except I'm surprised that Rueben reckons #8 is ok. Isn't it a direct example of " They unduly delayed the game
ReplyDeletefor tactical reasons" from the SOTG examples that BCR just linked to as "poor spirit". I guess the word in question there is "unduly", so is a timeout an appropriate way to delay the game for tactical reasons?
"so is a timeout an appropriate way to delay the game for tactical reasons".
ReplyDeleteTeams are free to use the timeout for whatever purpose they choose.
To my mind, unduly delaying the game for tactical reasons applies to delay's prior to the check after a call.
The conversation in our household lately has been lack of spirit or lack of sportsmanship?
ReplyDeleteHow do you distinguish them?
Delete